Great Brands, Smart Packaging Choices, with Rebecca & Lauren from Bartlett Brands
Bartlett Brands is a small studio in San Francisco who creates gorgeous brands, specializing in eco-friendly packaging design for indie cosmetics and personal care products.
We sat down to chat with founder Rebecca Bartlett and Art Director Lauren Golik about their incredibly innovative strategies to make the most environmentally sustainable decisions for products and packaging without sacrificing aesthetics and that “wow” factor so desired in luxury personal care products.
As you listen, be sure to give @BartlettBrands a follow on Instagram!
Links mentioned in this episode:
One Year with Less Packaging — Glossier offers option to opt-out of the pink pouch and other extra packaging
The Ellen MacArthur Foundation’s New Plastics Economy document
Recology Tour and Napa Composting Tour
Episode Transcript:
Marc: [00:00:29]
All right. Welcome back to another We Are Climate Designers podcast. My name is Marc and Sarah is joining right now. (laughs) Um, yeah, we're pretty excited to have not one but two guests for this podcast, Rebecca Bartlett and Lauren Golik, They work for Bartlett brands, which is an award winning boutique branding agency from cosmetics to consumables. They bring the all girl power to creating brands that challenge status and cut through the quo, Rebecca and Lauren. Welcome to the podcast.
Rebecca: [00:01:05]
Thank you for having us. We're excited to be here.
Marc: [00:01:08]
Very cool. So yeah, we have a number of questions we would love to chat with you all about. Before we dive in, maybe you could give us a little bit of introduction, the two of you, about who you are and what you do.
Rebecca: [00:01:19]
Sure. I'm Rebecca, the principal and creative director of Bartlett brands. As Marc said, we are a small and mighty team. We're based in San Francisco, focused on CPG in a lot of personal care and wellness and skincare cosmetics, food and beverage, essentially all the things that I like, and that are interesting. and yeah, my background is packaging. So I started in packaging about 20 years ago, when the dinosaurs roamed the earth, at Louise Fili Ltd.
And it was always my dream to be in packaging. And then 15 years later. So, you know, maybe about five years ago, when we discovered that there was an Island of trash floating in the ocean, I realized that that was all of my trash from my career. And so we set out to atone for our sins and try to do better, you know, as, as experts in packaging and design, we're kind of the first to be empowered to make a difference and sort of change the outlook of the future on that Island of trash.
Lauren: [00:02:23]
And I am Lauren. I am the art director at Bartlett brands. So I. as far as just like what I do, I take the brand strategy and convert that into the visuals that you see about a brand. And my background is also in packaging, for about 10 years in, mostly the personal care space and then started at Bartlett brands in 2016 and was very excited that Rebecca shared my passion for sustainability. It's also something that it was always like on my radar, but I definitely also had that like, aha moment, around the same time when all of this horrible stuff was coming out about the trash islands. So it's been really amazing to be able to make that something that our studio is all about.
And last year we partnered with the AIGA, on the eco warrior series. And that was a four-part talk series that we did back when you could do talks in person. And, it was a wonderful experience for all of us. We couldn't believe how successful it was. And there was a waiting list and people were just so excited about the content.
So, yeah, that was just like a really important thing for us. And we're going to continue with that. You know this year and beyond, and we're very excited about it.
Rebecca: [00:03:43]
It's been so interesting to see the momentum from, you know, when we started with, I would say our first truly. Sustainable client. in 2016 we were branding Biossance, they're an indie beauty brand now leading the clean beauty movement in Sephora. They were our first client that I would say really had sustainability as a core value. I mean, I think that along the way, we've had a lot of clients where we've been able to make big changes for them, while sustainability maybe wasn't a core value, but for Biossance, it really was.
And so when we were working on that and trying to move the needle, I think we were discovering that our industry was really behind in terms of this. And so the beginnings of this was like, we were talking on panels and circuits and like, you know, people were coming to us and they were interested in sustainability, but there wasn't really a lot of options for indie brands out there as we were doing sourcing and trying to do the best we could, you know, unless you have really high MOQ and millions of dollars, you know, your options are very limited. So it kind of started from this place of frustration where we're like, man, we want to do better for our clients.
What can we do? And now, you know, four or five years later, we are seeing a lot of progress and a lot more education and designers are more educated about the field and how they can do packaging better. And clients are more aware and consumers obviously are the ones driving all of this.
Sarah: [00:05:16]
Yeah. I wanted to interject real quick and define some industry terms. So CPG is consumer packaged goods. Any merchandise that customers basically use up and throw away. So can you talk a little bit more about, you know, is that just cosmetics and beauty products? Is it also food? What does, do you have a specific focus within that?
Rebecca: [00:05:35]
Yeah, our focus has historically been in personal care. And some food and beverage. Yeah. So, I mean, when you're thinking about personal care or you're thinking about dream creams and oils and things that are going to slather on your body and put in your hair, very often single use one and done, very often plastic bottles. or very specialized types of, dispensers for these where, you know, the product can't touch air, you know, we're talking about like one or two ounces of product in a plastic container that gets used for 30 days and then thrown out.
Lauren: [00:06:15]
And not even just one type of plastic, like seven types of plastic and maybe like a metal spring.
Rebecca: [00:06:20]
yeah.
Lauren: [00:06:21]
So it's. Yeah, I think a lot of people think about food first, when you think about sustainability and packaging, because food is kind of even more, ephemoral than personal care. Like you use it for like a day and then it's gone, but personal care is a huge, huge sector. And it's still so much plastic, even if you're using it for 30 days, not two days. It's still really big. And I think it took a little bit longer for people to think about that area of their lives. Like they're thinking about the kitchen where the recycling bin is, but they might not be thinking about it in their bathroom.
Marc: [00:06:57]
Great. Great. Rebecca. I want to come back to a comment you made, about five or so years ago, the studio had this, what we like to call, kind of a climate epiphany. And you recognized the fact that you were, kind of contributing to this waste, this issue of plastic waste in the world, whether it's in landfills or in the ocean.
And then you also mentioned how, designers back, you know, five or so years ago were asking very different questions or maybe even no questions regarding this versus what they're asking now, what I want to go into that a bit more specifically. It's 2020. sustainability and design is, it's a thing. It's definitely a thing. And it's amazing that more designers are focusing on that, what are some things that designers still aren't getting or understanding or considering when it comes to design and even more specifically packaging design?
Rebecca: [00:07:54]
Yeah. I mean, I think overall, the first thing that you want to think of is creating less, right?
So, you know, it's so fun to design a million things and especially coming from a space of prestige packaging, or luxury packaging, luxury experience, the whole experience, you know, we do a lot of direct to consumer. And so it's like every moment of the experience is like this. Thing. so kind of like the step one from that is, well, you know, our clients might have the budget to create all the things and we want to have the most wow experience you could possibly have, it really kind of comes back to step one, being like,
How can we actually create less?
How can we create a wow experience? Now we're thinking about like creating wow experiences, where there is a durable package that could be refilled, you know, it's, it's such a wow experience. It is like an expensive and non trash-like piece of packaging.
And you're going to put your focus there. Versus on six different things that go in your shipping container that immediately get thrown away after you've taken a picture of it for Instagram. so I think that's kind of the first thing that we think about. you know, I think the world is changing in personal care too, around thinking about innovative formats that don't require certain types of packaging, like pumps where it's just like the end of life for a pump is a landfill. And even if it's a pump made out of a single material, it's still going in a landfill. Cause it looks like a pump. you know, and so this idea of still, creating less, you know, avoiding single use and eliminating all the unnecessary elements.
So you can still have a "wow" experience, but you just have to be a little bit smarter and a little more creative on how you create the wow without necessarily using more stuff.
Lauren: [00:09:45]
One thing I would add there is. Kind of the way we look at it is we sort of think about how we can create less, first.
And then we go into choosing our materials. People, I think, just automatically think about materials and Oh, what can I do that's biodegradable, but I, I kinda tell people that biodegradable is sort of planning for the worst case scenario that if it ends up in the ocean, but if you actually think about it, Because only 4% or something like that of Americans have access to compost.
There isn't really like a good waste stream for these things that are compostable and biodegradable. And unless you're in a couple of major Metro cities that have composting sort of like it's going to end up in a landfill anyway, because it's non-recyclable, so, I don't know. I think people think that biodegradability is the thing that's going to solve all of our problems, but to Rebecca's point, just creating less and maybe trying to do more in the reuse area can have a bigger impact right now while we don't have more prevalent composting facilities in our country, at least.
Sarah: [00:10:51]
Very cool. I am really curious to know how your clients perceive the work that you're doing and the Planet pledge that you've taken in terms of like, do you have to convince clients to go along with your philosophy or is it more that clients seek you specifically because of your philosophy?
Rebecca: [00:11:13]
Yeah. In the beginning, when we first posted the pledge, the Planet First pledge, that is, I think that our clients were a mix of ones that were sustainably minded or at least liked the idea of it and ones that weren't. So the ones that aren't, you can kind of strong arm them, right?
Because again, you know, the customer has expectations unless they want to hear about their overuse of packaging on Instagram, you know, get in line. But when it comes down to it, You know, when we're doing sourcing and we're like, okay, you know, especially a few years ago, PCR. So post consumer recycled plastics were hard to get they're more expensive, you know, like making these changes, costed more money.
And so the ones that really didn't have that as like a core value, were not excited to pay more. And so like a lot of times, they'd be like, Yeah. Yeah. All good. All good. All good. Oh, well we pay 12 cents more per unit, maybe not.
But since we've been sort of talking about it and we're known for this particular topic, we do get a lot of interest from clients that are like, not only do we want to be sustainable, that we were getting clients that are like, we want to change the whole picture.
So right now we're working with a brand that we've been working on for almost three years. That's creating a completely circular, beauty and wellness brand. And we've touched every single part of that journey to complete the circle and it's like radically different than anything else.
So, you know, now we, we do get interest from clients who know that we have expertise in this and that we're also passionate about it, yet,because the background again is still creating these beautiful and premium pieces, we're still delivering on the thing that the customer actually wants, which is like cool ass products and cool ass brands.
I think that's one thing that we have seen over time where it's like, consumers want to feel good and everyone wants to do the right thing. But in a lot of cases, they're not really willing to go out of their way, you know, to do something uncomfortable or like to sacrifice. so, you know, we kind of are at that bridge of being able to deliver on like an excellent consumer experience without compromise.
Sarah: [00:13:35]
Yeah, I think that's one of the things that's so cool about the work that you're doing at Bartlett Brands, is that it doesn't feel like what comes to mind when we think of earth friendly branding or planet friendly products, you know, it doesn't have that sort of like granola hippie vibe. It still feels and looks like any commercial brand. Right. And I think you've been walking that line really well.
Rebecca: [00:14:01]
Thank you.
Sarah: [00:14:01]
Could I ask you to talk a little bit more about creating a circular brand? Marc and I talk about circular economy a little bit, but I think this is a really great opportunity to put it into some specifics about what exactly is different and maybe even what that means for some who don't know.
Rebecca: [00:14:17]
Yeah, I mean, for this particular brand, it's actually, if you could think of sort of like Rent the Runway where you're buying your product and borrowing the package. You'll be sending it back through a very high tech series of online actions. They have an app and all this stuff, proprietary cleaning and fulfillment center.
What they've tried to do is remove the friction at every single moment. So we break it down. It's like, okay, Let's talk about the experience of sending something back. Oh, it's a huge pain in the ass. It's like, I gotta find a printer and like my printer's out of ink and like, okay, now I gotta schedule UPS to come.
Oh, well we're in COVID. And like, UPS isn't coming to my area, you know? And it's just like, there's so many areas of friction throughout the entire system. it's not just like that moment that you need to send something back. It's like, So many moments. and so, you know, as we were going through their process of doing this, not just from like sending something back, but, you know, designing the packaging, you're like, okay, let's think about how we can create something that delivers on all the things that you've become accustomed to when you spend a lot of money on a fancy, fancy serum.
You know, like how it comes out and what happens when you close it and how much exactly comes out. you know, trying to kind of like reinvent that with different materials has been nothing short of almost impossible.
Lauren: [00:15:46]
And they wanted to use like no plastic if possible. so we were forced to kind of explore new materials that we hadn't worked with before, which was really fun, but also really hard.
Rebecca: [00:15:56]
Right, right. Like materials that generally usually do not come in contact with like, Certain types of, effective skincare ingredients, let's say, you know, so there was like along, the way so many times where we're like, I don't know if that's going to be possible or like a vendor's like, I don't know if that's going to be possible.
The CEO of this company is. Relentless in her pursuit. And you know, here we are three years later, it was supposed to launch this summer. It's now holding a little bit, but, everyone can sign up for emails to be notified of their launch online at AceOfAir.com, they're called Ace of Air , and you know, she has, she has pushed everyone, you know, to make this thing far exceed anything that's ever been out there before.
Lauren: [00:16:43]
Yeah. And we, you know, we don't like to use the term zero waste because it's kind of like impossible, but I would say it's the closest thing to zero waste that exists.
The shipping container even is reusable many, many times everything's meant to be reused many, many times.
Sarah: [00:17:01]
So you, you order this product from their website. And then it's shipped to you in a package and then you use it and then you use an app that you've also designed to tell them that you need to ship the product back and get a new one or something like that. And then that whole thing is part of the experience you've designed.
That's amazing.
Is that right?
Lauren: [00:17:22]
Yeah. Hopefully launching very soon.
Marc: [00:17:24]
And I love this and it reminds me of just the conversation we were having before we hit record on this podcast. You know, especially young designers, I think young designers, or even just, you know, newly graduated designers, they focus on the one thing that they're really good at.
So designing a website or, you know, in this case, maybe a package, but it's so important to encourage designers to think, not just about that one particular touch point, but every part of the project, every part of the system, every part of the thing, the brand. And I loved how, You know, Rebecca, you're kind of walking us through some of the touch points that need to be, be considered to really truly make this a more circular brand, circular experience.
And so, you know, I think with young designers out there, or even just design educators, you know, we really need to start to push young designers to think more in systems and think more broadly in terms of how we design and what we design and that every single touch point needs to be considered. It's not just the one artifact anymore. It's the overall experience.
Rebecca: [00:18:28]
Yeah, I think that's so true. And definitely if it, you know, if design hasn't shifted to that yet. It should. Right, because it is all about this experience. Every touch point contributes to the overall experience.
Lauren: [00:18:43]
Yeah. And I think that's true about sustainability. and I think it's true about branding in general.
Marc: [00:18:48]
Yeah, and I want to, go back to something that Sarah mentioned just a few minutes ago, about how a lot of the stuff you're designing, that a lot of the stuff that we see on your website, doesn't have that stereotypical, you know, sustainability brand and stuff. How I mean, and, and the work that we do, we kind of strive to do the same with our clients.
What do you suggest for clients who are maybe thinking about it or know that they have to, if they really want to kind of amplify the brand or whatever it is that they're working on?
Rebecca: [00:19:15]
Yeah. I mean, I think it starts with you kind of fear-mongering them around the fact that like, unless they want to hear about it on Instagram, like their customer, you know, like for example, Glossier launched their products in that pink bubble bag.
It was so iconic. I mean, people collected it. It was just, and then years later, I forget what exactly this happened. Maybe last year people started being like, You're sending me a, a chunk of plastic that like is actually just waste. And, you know, like their consumers took to Instagram or like, we don't want you to do this anymore, you know?
And then they released their holiday packaging in, you know, pulp works, pulp form packaging. That looks as cool as every one of their experiences always delivers on this cool factor, you know, but it's something that's biodegradable.
I don't think I totally answered your question.
Rebecca: [00:20:09]
I think I'm trying to say that it starts with the consumer. Yeah. Because in the end, if they come to us and they're like, you know, we like the idea of sustainability, but we're not really like willing to do anything to actually help make it happen, there's not much we can, we can do some things for them, but. Sometimes they're having to pay for it a little more or, you know, partner with a third party. It's an uphill battle. We work best with clients that are sustainably minded in some sense, or at least get it.
Lauren: [00:20:39]
Yeah. I mean, I mean, I feel lucky cause I feel like we've gotten to a point where we can be more selective with our clients.
So we probably wouldn't take on a client that wanted to do like. Some crazy wasteful packaging. We'd just be like, nah, we're good. but yeah, there's so much data now to support the fact that consumers want to spend more money on brands that align with all their values, not even just about sustainability, but you know about other things about people and you know, everything.
So it's kind of easier. I mean, it's getting easier and easier to convince people that it's a good return on your investment besides being a good thing to do for the world.
Sarah: [00:21:16]
Yeah, I think that's key. I think there's an element of longer term thinking in that, and there's an element of a complete culture change of when you're running a business, you don't need to just think about the cheapest way to get something built.
You're also thinking about. Yeah. That's where the longterm thinking comes in. how is this going to be appreciated or valued by your audience? How is it going to help build your brand? How is it going to bite you in the butt later on?
Lauren: [00:21:46]
I think also the there's like that cultural shift that's happening too.
With consumers, they're wanting to buy fewer higher quality things, like with the decline of fast fashion, we've seen it. so I think that goes hand in hand where people aren't wanting to buy just the cheapest crap and then throw it out. They'd rather find something that's more of an investment, but is going to make them happier over time.
Rebecca: [00:22:13]
Yeah. I saw, a stat in a consumer data paper, just like a couple of days ago, right now, around the strongest motivators for purchase right now, granted, we are in this COVID state where it's like everything we buy, it's like such a big deal to obtain things right now, especially if you're in San Francisco, like it means you're going to wait in line or you're going to be like, you know, refreshing the Good Eggs app constantly until you can get a delivery window. So you're hyper aware of where you're spending your money. But anyway, this report had said that the strongest motivators for purchase are how companies treat their employees, community, and how they're giving back. Right. And, and, you know, we're, we're just like so aware of this now, if you're going to stand in line for 45 minutes, who are you giving your money to.
Marc: [00:23:00]
Yeah, there's definitely a handful of, of brands that I am a fan of and it's, for those reasons, you know, I think a lot of people are waking up and realizing I'd rather spend my money on something that I know is going to last.
And I know that came from a good place.
Rebecca: [00:23:15]
Yeah. And you're also thinking about like, at the end of this, which brands do you want to still be around? You know, you're truly connected to them and that you're supporting them to exist in our world when things reopen.
Marc: [00:23:28]
Yeah. Yeah. Last question, before we close out. So what advice would you give a young designer who is perhaps still in design school or just is about to graduate. What advice would you give a young designer who is interested in doing more climate related work, whether it is packaging or something else?
What advice? Any resources, any places you can point them to?
Lauren: [00:23:50]
Sure, my advice, when I talk to students that are really into this is just learn everything you can. We love the Ellen MacArthur foundation, the new plastics economy document, like, blew our minds and opened our eyes and really helped shape our approach to how we approach packaging. So definitely they're an amazing resource.
Project Drawdown. I know you guys talk about them a lot at Climate Designers, but they're amazing and have all sorts of free learning tools.
And then the other advice that I have is to sort of talk to everyone that you can. Go to meet ups, like the climate designers meet up, and just tell everyone what you're passionate about and what you want to do.
And I believe that if you sort of put it out into the universe, what you want and tell everyone that you can it'll come back to you and opportunities will open up.
Rebecca: [00:24:43]
Yeah, I would say for, for graduates, especially graduates who are looking for jobs now where, you know, maybe you wanted to work for a nonprofit, or maybe you wanted to work for Patagonia because you want to live out your dream of being this climate activist through your work.
you know, it might feel just like impossible to find that job. That's going to be the one where you're going to be. You know, shaping the landscape of the future, but I just want to say, like, we didn't come into being climate designers from that angle. You know, my passion has always been packaging. And so, you know, I wanted a packaging job and now I'm packaging expert, and now we know about how we can make great packaging choices and really any job would be like that.
So, you know, you can be a Climate Designer in any job you decide to take where it's like, you know how to make smarter decisions, you know how to make those incremental changes. In an entry level job, sometimes people don't feel that they're empowered to change a company and change a business, but you know, in your role, in your position, you can do the best you can. Again, back to what Lauren was saying by being very educated on making those decisions.
And then the other thing, you know, not to lose sight of is of course, the amount of power that the consumer has. So, you know, as a consumer, speak up and tell your brands what you want from them, or if they're doing things that you don't like, you are also empowered in that way to do that. Speak up in the workplace, speak up at home, and let your brands know what you're looking for in terms of taking a positive climate action.
Lauren: [00:26:20]
Yeah. And make sure you're doing all the right things at home with recycling and just kind of practicing what you preach and, you know, people will see what you're doing. And that makes a difference too.
Rebecca: [00:26:31]
Yeah, actually, that was also very formative for us in addition to honing in on our expertise around designing better, you know, tour Recology. That was kind of mind blowing when you actually see where your trash goes. All of these things that you thought are just not true. so as part of, you know, educating yourself, your home behavior makes a really big difference too. and there's definitely a right and wrong, and it is not clear a lot of times what that right and wrong is so as part of educating yourself, you know, you can change your behavior and make a difference over the course of your life.
Sarah: [00:27:11]
Yeah, one thing that was really eye opening to me with sheltering in place with my mother in Wisconsin, instead of in San Francisco, where we have very robust recycling and composting program.
And here in small town, Wisconsin, there really is so much less that you can actually throw in the recycling bin and there is no industrial composting situation. It's like, Oh, we're actually quite lucky in the San Francisco area. Not the rest of the country is like that.
Lauren: [00:27:40]
Yeah. People, I don't think everyone knows how it is outside of the bubble.
Sarah: [00:27:43]
No. Yeah. So,
Lauren: [00:27:45]
yeah, if you are in the Bay area, we did the Recology tour and we did the Napa composting tour and both were phenomenal. And we learned a crazy amount of information as consumers and designers.
Marc: [00:27:57]
I mean who doesn't like to visit a landfill or recycling.
Lauren: [00:28:00]
Yeah. It smells lovely.
Rebecca: [00:28:02]
No, seriously. I remember people like what do we do for fun?
We're like, yeah. We're really fun girls. Wanna go to a recycling plant?
Marc: [00:28:09]
I remember those field trips in grade school. Yeah. It's a blast. It's it's informative. It's eye-opening. So yeah, highly recommend it.
Sarah: [00:28:16]
Any infrastructure tours are very eye opening. Oh, cool. Well, thank you so much for spending this time with us. Can you, give us a little bit, your URL, your social media, where, where can we find you and connect with you for more chit chat?
Rebecca: [00:28:30]
Sure. Yeah. We're at BartlettBrands.com and you can find us on Instagram @BartlettBrands, or Google search Bartlett Brands
Lauren: [00:28:38]
and definitely keep an eye on our Instagram in the next couple of months, because we're going to be figuring out how to do another Eco-Warrior series over webinar.So that will be fun
Rebecca: [00:28:50]
expanding beyond the Bay.
Lauren: [00:28:51]
That is the good thing about it.
Rebecca: [00:28:52]
Yeah.
Marc: [00:28:53]
Yeah. We'll definitely share that amongst our Climate Designers community.
Rebecca: [00:28:57]
Definitely.
Sarah: [00:28:57]
All right. Great chatting with you. Thank you so much.
Rebecca: [00:28:59]
Thanks guys.
Lauren: [00:29:00]
Thank you guys for having us.
Rebecca: [00:29:01]
Bye.