On Green Graphic Design, with Jonny Black of Cast Iron Design
Jonny Black is a green graphic designer, one of the founders of Cast Iron Design, who specializes in branding, web design, packaging, and environmentally responsible print production.
In this interview we chat about how — and why — Jonny merged his passion for environmentalism with his expertise in graphic design, and what some of the unexpected perks and benefits have been since the two converged.
Follow along with Jonny’s exploration of sustainable design on the Cast Iron Design Instagram.
Links mentioned in this episode:
Green Graphic Design by Brian Doherty
Living Ink in Colorado
New! Episode Transcript:
[00:00:00]
Sarah: Hey, I'm here with Marc and I'm really excited to introduce Johnny Black, graphic designer extraordinaire. He is hanging out with us today. He's a proficient typographer print production specialist, and all around visual wizard from Cast Iron studios —
Marc: Great bio!
Sarah: — Cast Iron Design — who specializes in branding, web packaging and environmentally responsible print production. Hey Johnny. Thanks for being here.
[00:01:00]
Jonny: Thanks . I'm excited to be here.
Sarah: Yeah!
Marc: so, yeah. Thanks for taking the time, man. You know, you have your studio Cast Iron Design and in your about section or in this case, your studio page, you have a section on sustainable graphic design. So the question for you, why as a designer, did you choose this particular route or approach to design in terms of sustainable graphic design?
Jonny: Um, yeah, we just see it as a way to maximize revenue primarily. Um, no, I'm joking. Um, no, I mean, there's so many reasons like I think the first thing that comes to mind is that it, you know, like you spend, we spend so much time at work, Just doing the work that we do. And if it doesn't have, if you don't feel like it has purpose, and you ha you're in a position to choose something that has purpose, then I would highly encourage everybody to do that regardless of what that purpose is.
[00:02:00]
And for me, that's, you know, sustainability, green graphic design, or whatever label you want to give it. and, yeah, just it makes the work and, the overall life experience more enriching because you're doing something that actually, you know, you think matters. Um, so there's the personal part of it.
And then, I think there's a lot of other really great, sort of repercussions. I mean, personally, I think it's a, I feel a sort of. pull to do this work. I was in a position about 10 years ago, actually almost exactly, when, I was like this environmentalist on one side and this passionate designer, on the other side and they never really converged.
I took this course in grad school. Called critical issues in design and they sort of, merged the two. I didn't really realize that green graphic design was a thing. And, through that course, I came across Green Graphic Design by Brian Doherty, shout out to Brian. That's a great book. It still holds up.
[00:03:00]
And then, yeah, just like slowly got, this idea moving and It really turned the trajectory of my life. I realized through the book and through the class that designers have so much power, right? Like we're at this, point of inflection where, we're like the gatekeepers between, the business and the product, right? We're, one of the last pieces in the channel of commerce. And I think there's huge opportunities for designers to take a moral stance, an ethical stance and make sure that the work that they're doing is something that they believe in. If you're in the position to be able to make that decision.
So we, we find that by doing sustainable design that we have better clients for instance.
Aa lot of people have, people tell all the — in the industry, they always tell horror stories about clients. Like we have, we have one really bad client experience, I would say. And that's it. I think almost all the people that we work with are really good people.
[00:04:00]
And I think part of that is because we weed out, you know, the, the shitty people, if you will, the people that, if they read something about sustainability on our website and they're like, nah, then. Yeah. That's, that's not the people for us. Right. And we don't want them to contact us. Um, and so, you know, needless to say, we're not getting any inquiries from Exxon or BP or, you know, that kind of thing. We haven't been asked to, uh, you know, do the Brexit branding or the Trump campaign, or, you know, um, so I think that part of it's really great.
And then we've also seen that we've, we've attracted more talent than you would expect from a studio of our size of our, experience. I think our last internship we had over 50 designers apply and most of them cited our mission and our positioned with sustainability as an attractor, and a driving force behind why they are interested in our studio.
So, yeah. I think that kind of sums up the, the why.
Sarah: Very cool.
[00:05:00]
Marc: I'm wondering, have you noticed, just going off of that last comment about the number of inquiries from young designers who are wanting to, to intern with you or work with you, has that increased over the last few years?
Jonny: Yeah, it's a funny question. So, um, think it was about three years ago — we always have lots of students email us about sustainability, we're, really happy to answer their questions and talk to them and that sort of thing — We had somebody ask a few years ago that said like, have you noticed a change in the last few years, this was like 2017.
She asked if we had noticed a change in sustainable design, uh, uptick. And I said, uh, no, uh, to be perfectly honest, I see no change at all from when I started in 2010 and it's, uh, you know, pretty frustrating.
But I would say in the last few years, there's been enormous change in industry. More and more people are talking about sustainability. More and more blogs are addressing it and more and more award showcases and, magazines and blogs.
[00:06:00]
Like I just, just all over the board, there's a huge surge in conversations surrounding sustainability. So yeah, definitely.
Marc: Yeah. And I'm asking, cause. You know, us being in the climate space for so long, I feel like us doing these public events and meeting people at these climate events. There's a lot more people that we're interacting with. Month after month, it seems like that number is increasing. And I think it's because people are, are waking up and realizing, designers are waking up and realizing like, Whoa, we have a crisis out there and what can I do to address this? What can I do in my day to day? And this is great, you know, the more people that know about this stuff the better. Um, so yeah, very interesting. How, both of us, your side and our side, we're seeing an increase in people's interest in this kind of work.
[00:07:00]
Jonny: Well, I mean, we're seeing increase in the impact of climate change as well.
And I think when you see, when you look at the news and you see an entire continent on fire, you're kind of like, Oh shit, maybe I should be doing something. Yeah,
Marc: yeah, yeah.
Sarah: I want to ask you, something interesting you said a few minutes ago. Designers have power — designers have immense power or something. I think that's what you said. Can you talk more about that? Because I think we hear from a lot of designers who feel like they are powerless or don't know what to do about climate change. What is it that you see as the power of being a designer in this — facing this climate crisis?
Jonny: I say this with some hesitation because, a lot of people who are going to be, you know, will be listening to this — It's certainly a position of privilege to be a designer that can say “No.” Right. Um, you know, there's a lot of people with, they have families, they have, you know, responsibilities and commitments to where they can't take those risks.
[00:08:00]
They can't stand up and they can't… so yeah, just preface it with that. Like not everybody's in the position to do that. Not all of us are in the position to do something, that's for sure.
Even if you bring up sustainability in your, if you're an in house designer somewhere and you bring up like, Hey, we are, you know, our design or packaging should be more sustainable.
Even if that gets ignored, the more people like you that bring it up the more change that will occur. People in power will consider that.
But I think for the designers in the position of privilege, whether they can say no and they can stand up and they can, you know, risk whatever it is in that situation, then yeah, I mean like designers, If you're a designer working somewhere and they ask you to do something and, you've been looking into sustainable design and you know that it's a really environmental hazardous thing that you're asked to do.
You can say no.
And, you can suggest an alternative. You can do research on that. You can, really push for that, talk to your colleagues and get them involved and get them on board. You know?
[00:09:00]
You have a lot of power because design is such a necessary component of business.
You know, it just can't operate — commerce doesn't happen without designers. So it's like, we're at the end of this chain, right before the product gets printed or packaged or that kind of thing where, realize the sort of atrocities that are being committed and do something about it.
So, I think historically designers have been in this subservient role. And I think that's definitely changing, businesses talking about design thinking and designers, companies that now have the Chief Design Officer as like a C-level role. There's all these different parts that are like, companies are waking up to how powerful design is as a force for business. And so the designer as a result becomes more powerful in their role, but it's, it's about… how can we take advantage of that?
Sarah: So what are some of the things that you do differently than another design studio?
[00:10:00]
Jonny: I think, I think there's just a lot of stuff. The first thing is that we intentionally try to attract a certain type of client. Right, like I mentioned before about weeding out the bad clients. We want clients that are wanting to integrate sustainable practices into their business or product and people that are doing —organizations that are doing things, the mission driven stuff, or they believe that they're making the world a better place or at least not have a negative impact. And so, we have worked really hard in the last 10 years to put ourselves in a position to be able to say, “No.”
We've had inquiries like, just all across the board, of really weird shit. Stuff from like a live lobster delivery to your door to, like, you know, anti-aging dog pills and that kind of thing, like just all this weird stuff that we think is either ethically questionable or just a snake oil, or we feel like, you know, we can't get behind the product.
So that's one of the things that we've worked really hard to do is to put ourselves in a position to be able to turn down the work that doesn't align with our studio, principles. and then from there, the work that we do take on, we try to integrate sustainability into whatever we're doing.
[00:11:00]
The most important area for that is in printing and packaging, of course, cause that's where the biggest impact can be made. It's essentially, it comes down to knowledge, not every designer — design curriculum is only begun to integrate sustainability into the classroom.
At all major universities, it seems like now they're starting to have a sustainability course, some of them have sustainability programs but it's still really a small part of the design curriculum in general.
Sarah: Could you give me an example of a sustainable print or packaging practices?
Jonny: So we think that paper is the easiest way to start, cause designers use a ton of paper.
[00:12:00]
Right if you use 100% post consumer paper versus a paper that's made from Virgin fibers where you're doing is you're using Post consumer recycled paper. That's taking it like has this, you know, it can be recycled several times before it’s not able to be turned into more paper versus a Virgin fiber source that —there's good Virgin fiber sources that are responsibility managed, but then there's also stuff like we're tearing down old growth forest and, and those — there's a huge difference in like the material choice.
So just educating yourself on the materials that you're using is a huge part of it. And then designing efficiently, or designing for efficiency. One example of that is designing for the press sheet. If you look at how, like go through the steps and look at how a printed piece is created, there's a lot of math and planning involved.
And if you can minimize the amount of waste that you're creating through smart design and considering that press sheet and kind of designing backwards. And that's one of the key things and key principles of green designers, you know, think about what the destination is and then design backwards from there.
[00:13:00]
And so you consider all these different steps that a typical designer wouldn't. So those are just a couple of examples of what sustainable design is.
Sarah: Yeah. You've got a really cool animation on your homepage about using algae ink …
Jonny: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've had like, um, you know, I think what's funny is that the stuff that has the biggest impact is, is really, simple kind of common sense stuff, like, you know, being less wasteful and using materials with smaller impact. But we also are really excited by the potential of what I would categorize as future materials. And so the algae thing that you're describing is, we worked with, Living Ink here in Colorado and they have this, ink, this pigment — it's really just the pigment — that's made from an algae bi-product and it's this really cool promising technology, but…
[00:14:00]
It's not, um, like you can't use it yet. Like, we, we were able to use it for this project. Cause they were like, you know, they wanted a project to beta, test it with, but you, um, you can't go out and commercially buy that. So it's not like something you can do as a designer today to go like do that. But we're excited to sort of shepherd that into the public sphere and make people aware of it.
And, you know, people have been, like people, somebody just emailed us to say like, Hey, how did we get one of those algae ink books? You know? Cause everyone's really excited about it, but, but that's like the sexy stuff, but the stuff that really makes a difference is like the boring shit, you know? Um, and that's kind of like the ground zero of where we start.
Yeah.
Marc: Yeah. Um, I want to shift gears a little bit, Johnny, you being. In my opinion, you're being a bit more involved in the design space. What are you seeing that is not being talked about or addressed in the design industry when it comes to climate change?
Besides the stuff that you kind of shared too, in terms of production and things like what are, what would you love if you were to browse a design blog or flip through a design magazine?
[00:15:00]
What, what kind of headliner article would you love to see at your house that you haven't seen just yet?
Jonny: I think. It [climate change] needs to be a bigger part of the mainstream conversation. I think that would be the, the biggest thing for me. It's like, you know, you'll see, I won't say what it was, but there's a recent, some design award thing that I saw and they had a sustainability category. It was all just your token stuff.
Like something that could be reused, you know, five different ways, kind of like the novel stuff that people think about. And I think. one of our, unwritten missions is we want to make sustainable design “Cool.” Right? Cause it's, it's not. If I'm totally honest, right now it's like, uh, I think five years ago, the stereotype that we're moving away from was like the leaf motif kind of crunchy granola, everything was Brown and green, all that bullshit, and I think, we've, we sort of moved away from that, but it's still a little bit stuck in that category and there's some really cool people working on, uh, working in this space that get me excited about where it's headed, but it's still just really not a part of the mainstream conversation.
[00:16:00]
But I think, I do think that's changing, seeing things like, the Dieline, for instance, covering tons of stuff about sustainability. And it's nice that having articles, threads on sustainability. it's definitely changing, but it's still frustrating that it's, like I don't want to be the “sustainable designer.”
Like I just want to be. Like my goal is to, kind of work myself out of this position, you know, essentially, like I just want it to be the norm. And then, I don't have to be on my soap box talking about it, you know?
Marc: Yeah. I hear that from a lot of friends in the same space. Like why can't this just be the thing that we do, what does that, this, the subset of something that's this corner of the design industry? Why can't it just be the design industry?
Jonny: And I do think that the way that happens is at the education level, and the people working in that space are really doing important work cause it's, if students all come out of school with like a really, heavy grounding and sustainable design education, then it's going to change the industry overnight, you know?
[00:17:00]
Marc: yeah. So knowing that, I don't think this was mentioned in your intro, but, I don't know if you still currently teach, but you've taught at the college level. In the design program. Right. As we kind of wrap up the interview, what would you say to a young design student who is interested in learning more about this, the sustainable design approach, or even just getting themselves familiar with the climate crisis and how they can play a role in that?
What would, what would be your advice? To a young student, either it was still in school or maybe someone who's about to graduate.
Jonny: I would say. To, invest time into just, uh, making yourself more aware. I think that is the starting point, there's so much cool shit happening with sustainable design on Instagram.
[00:18:00]
Um, and, uh, you know, here [the USA] and in the United Kingdom, like there's all these, People doing really interesting things that are helping push us in that direction. And so if you really dig into all of that, I think that's an important part of it.
And then when you get to the point where you're doing work, or applying for jobs or freelance or whatever it is, I think, we found really great success from putting your values front and center, right? Like really expressing that from the get go and not having it be something that you talk about like once you get hired or, you know, like ask questions in interviews, right?
Put your values on your website, like right when you get there, put it on your resume, like whatever it is that you believe in is a change in the design field. Uh, if that's sustainability great. If that's something else great, but whatever it is communicating that is going to help people wake up to the importance of this.
Marc: That's great. Love it. Any, um, any final thoughts?
[00:19:00]
Marc: Is there anything, um, anything else you want to say before we wrap up?
Jonny: Yeah, I would say, um, please don't use leaves and green in your, eco designs. We gotta break that stigma and, um, yeah.
Sarah: What about, like polar bears on ice cube or like
Marc: Like, the planet.
Jonny: Yeah. I mean, uh, I finally, I think we're, we're starting to move away from that, but that was like, , You know, when I would see sustainable design portfolios back in the day, it would just be a bunch of that kind of stuff.
And, um, yeah, I think, all of the media coverage about climate change is necessary, but it's also really helping us sort of bring sustainable design into the conversation.
Marc: yeah. If, if you want to appeal to the masses, you got to appeal to the masses. No one — Not everyone subscribes to the leaf and polar bear graphics, you know, you have to appeal to them.
Jonny: If you have a logo that has a leaf & a polar bear, that's totally fine. Don't listen to me. I'm just one person
Marc: well, Johnny man, appreciate it. Where can people find you and your work?
[00:20:00]
Jonny: CastIronDesign.com. And then, we're I think as far as social media goes, we're, we've primarily focused on Instagram. So @castirondesign on Instagram.
Marc: Nice. Thanks so much, Johnny. Awesome. Appreciate it, buddy.
Jonny: Alright, thank you.